Curse

zwei2stein · May 27, 2008, 08:26 AM // 08:26

Soj is usefull for Farming? Yeah, about 2 years ago.

I personally would do this:

10e, 3/4 cast, 10r

for 5 seconds, next 3 times target ally takes damage from enemy, that enemy is knocked down and suffers (original soj damage).

GOGO, active spike prevention. Would totally mess up spike/afterspike sequence. It can greatly help ganked ally to get out of rough spot, etc.

(while we are at it, reversal of damage needs recharge buff)

SoJ atm is useless skill in PvP and forgotten in PvE (even farming smiters rather run maintained smiting enchants and use elites for nonsmiting stuff)

Phoenix Tears · May 27, 2008, 04:26 PM // 16:26

uhm, did I anywhere here talk before about "going into pvp with SoJ and AE"? I don't think so, that I did...

All I was about is, that this Skill needs no reduce of its recharge time.
The recharge of 45 seconds is totally fine and when you think, the duration of 21 seconds max is for you personally too short, then you should use SoJ together with AE to double easily its duration, because as Mo/Me you can keep the Shield permanent up, if you WANT to do so.

I never have spoken anythign yet about it, HOW USEFULL the Skill is in PvP, or NOT.

When will people start here to realize, that when I talk about Skills, my fist view on somethign will be EVER that of a PvE-Player, that I AM and not that of an elitist PvP'er, so I give a shit about if, if some assholes call me clueless, when theyself can't accept the fact, that the stuff they critizised came from someone, with few to no big experience about, how Skills get seen in PvP.

But most people here are too retarded to give normal answers, instead of flaming someone from one should know in the meantime, that the comment can't be compared with another one, that came from an elitist pvp'er and has an complete other view of the Skill, that gets discussed.

I for myself as PvE'er see in this skill nothign, that would give it a reason to buff this skill or to completely change its effect to a dumb clone skill of an other existing skill. For such things like too short duration/too long recharge - exctly therefore exist Skills like Echo and Arcane Echo, to increase with them the duration of a Skill so that it becomes possible eventually to perma use Skill X or to drastically at least reduce the tiem you have to wait, before you can use Skill Xagain. But therfore you have to scrifice Skill Slots - thats balanced.

Now the point of the Skills's Effect:

Only because the Skill triggers only, when you get attacked calling it useless for pvp makes no sense. In PvP you use SoJ as Prevention SKill, there it is far more a skill used for passive protection and shutdown...

Sure, in PvP enemies don't rush at you without thinking about, what skills you have active, like monsters in PvE..but in PvP activating a SoJ on you will surely passively manipulate the player's choice, in which people they target and attack.

When I as player in PvP stand in front of the situation, that I've 2 targets before me, both are AL 60 quishies, both monks and one is casting SoJ on his self, isn't it then obvious, that you first target the monk, that can't cast the shield on hisself, because it will be easier to kill that monk, as the monk, where you will suffer ever counter damage and get kd ?

This way alone by using SoJ you have passively protected yourself for a while, because foes will not attack you in PvP as long they have brains in their heads and wait, until your enchant is over or got stripped/ripped ect. so that you don't counter damage/kd anymore and become an easier target to kill again.

Vilaptca · May 27, 2008, 05:11 PM // 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

skills r roughly broken down into 3 categories:

1. well rounded skills useful in many situations
2. specific purpose skills useful in few gimmick build situations
3. completely useless skills that wont get any use at all

i'd prefer anet fix teh ones in category 3,
rather then try to fix teh ones in category 2 to be shifted into category 1 status

Because this needs to be quoted

Some skills serve certain purposes, they can't be used everywhere.

This skill is used for farming. We shouldn't nerf it so that it can be used elsewhere, especially when there are similar skills to what you are suggesting, that could be buffed instead.

There are tons of skills that nobody uses, why not buff them?

cgruber · May 27, 2008, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Smite could use some love...

SOJ: 10e/1 sec cast/20 sec recharge the next time target is dmged
by an skill target is healed for 0 - 70 and all skills from that tree are disabled for 2...5...9..12 seconds.

Sorta like a suped-up shield bash/disarm.

Hailey Anne · May 27, 2008, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Um you do realize that not all 55s are Mo/D right?
Even those that are MR is not that bad and is still very usable.
But alot of people still Mo/Me.
SoJ is still highly used for farming.

Axel Zinfandel · May 27, 2008, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Honestly, the only thing it needs is a slight tweak on the recharge for PvE. Same with Mark of Protection.

Both Shield of Judgement and Mark of Protection are both 'Time Out' skills. Outside of farming, it can assure the safety of a member that's attracting way too much aggro for him to handle.

Luminarus · May 28, 2008, 09:26 AM // 09:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Tears

All I was about is, that this Skill needs no reduce of its recharge time.
The recharge of 45 seconds is totally fine and when you think, the duration of 21 seconds max is for you personally too short, then you should use SoJ together with AE to double easily its duration, because as Mo/Me you can keep the Shield permanent up, if you WANT to do so.

That requires 45 energy every 45 seconds, which results in you only haveing 15 energy every 45 seconds for usefulness as well as wasting 2 skill slots. If it gets removed in that time you have still spent 15 energy, and now you are without it up. If noone attacks you its pretty crap.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Tears

When will people start here to realize, that when I talk about Skills, my fist view on somethign will be EVER that of a PvE-Player, that I AM and not that of an elitist PvP'er, so I give a shit about if, if some assholes call me clueless, when theyself can't accept the fact, that the stuff they critizised came from someone, with few to no big experience about, how Skills get seen in PvP.

I understand ur problem with this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pheonix Tears

I for myself as PvE'er see in this skill nothign, that would give it a reason to buff this skill or to completely change its effect to a dumb clone skill of an other existing skill. For such things like too short duration/too long recharge - exctly therefore exist Skills like Echo and Arcane Echo, to increase with them the duration of a Skill so that it becomes possible eventually to perma use Skill X or to drastically at least reduce the tiem you have to wait, before you can use Skill Xagain. But therfore you have to scrifice Skill Slots - thats balanced.

My idea changes it to be worth useing in pvp & pve. Rather then suffering like 200 damage every second from a HM boss, this can stop that damage for 3 seconds (first hit & 2 seconds of KD).

As well as this, rather then being able to kept up indefinately on one person, it can be put onto a new target such that its a proactive skill that can give a more beneficial result in the long run. It doesnt have the same damage output as the previous skill did because it not only has a 1 hit / 10 seconds (as opposed to the larger number from the previous skill, probably 10 over its duration. As well as this, because the damage is not set, but based on the damage the target would have received its even lower, hitting possibly higher on warriors, but casters will barely notice the damage (same reason casters in pvp wand when not casting/kiting, to end RoF/RoD). Because of this reason the change doesnt make it imbalanced, although i could potentially see this as changing to a set damage.

[QUOTE=Pheonix Tears]
Now the point of the Skills's Effect:

Only because the Skill triggers only, when you get attacked calling it useless for pvp makes no sense. In PvP you use SoJ as Prevention SKill, there it is far more a skill used for passive protection and shutdown...[QUOTE]

If you want to protect through passive defence try aegis or wards. Not a 15 energy elite spell that can be used once every 45 seconds and is only up 1/2 that without AE. If ur gonna use you're elite for that, post nerf Shield of Deflection does the job better, and still rarely sees much play, compared to RC, WoH etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pheonix Tears

When I as player in PvP stand in front of the situation, that I've 2 targets before me, both are AL 60 quishies, both monks and one is casting SoJ on his self, isn't it then obvious, that you first target the monk, that can't cast the shield on hisself, because it will be easier to kill that monk, as the monk, where you will suffer ever counter damage and get kd ?

Yes, thats the problem with the current SoJ, also I wish 1/2 the warriors in ra knew that :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pheonix Tears

This way alone by using SoJ you have passively protected yourself for a while, because foes will not attack you in PvP as long they have brains in their heads and wait, until your enchant is over or got stripped/ripped ect. so that you don't counter damage/kd anymore and become an easier target to kill again.

You protect yourself 1/2 the time at the expense of 15 energy, a skill slot, you're elite and you're allies, and once its down you're less able to defend yourself. I would bet 5k my monk can stay alive longer using proper prots, and self heal then urs can using SoJ (dont care if you want to but im happy to try, and its not a challenge more a statement of how inneficient ur use of SoJ is compared to others). If you want it up 100% of the time using AE then its 45 energy, 2 skill slots, youre elite & ur now basically unable to help ur allies because u only have enough energy to cast 3 5 energy spells every 45 seconds, maybe a couple more if you run something like cast sig, or mesmer e-management but in that case you're wasting even more skill slots.

@zwei2stein It was actually used alot less then 6 months ago for farming undead at bergen, corsairs in zehlon & probably others, but now its rarely used.

@C-Gruber, ur looking at a buffed Xinrae's weapon and that is imba. Also smite skills dont heal if conditions are met, they do damage if conditions are met. Ur skill sounds like something more in the prot line.

@Vilaptica & Hailey: No-one yet has posted actually saying that they do still use it to farm. I am about 90% sure that only bots use it now due to all good farms being either dead, nerfed or 600/smite